Rights of Roman Catholics before emancipation.

In order to find the origins of my ggrandfathern I am trying to understand him. He lived in Dublin and Co.Monaghan 1800-1856; starting work in Dublin around age 38 as a gauger for dept of Excise. He was definitely a RC though his wife was COI. His daughters were COI and sons RC. It seems like he had a ‘foot in both camps’!!. I thought I had read that RC were barred from public office in this period yet here he is working for the government. Would he have needed to have been nominated for this position? If so who could do this?
Surely he would have been unpopular amongst his fellow RC’s?
Love to know more about the history behind this???

Hello Noella,

It does indeed sound as though your great grandfather had an interesting religious life in a very turbulent time!

Have you tried to reach out to a Historian or even University who have an Irish history class? Maybe the Royal Irish Academy would be a place to try.

We have a few members who have a great knowledge of Genealogy that could also help. What was the name of your great grandfather? 

Martin

Hi Martin,
His name was Patrick Henry FitzGerald. And to add to my confusion I have found newspaper articles where he is on church committees (RC of course) and also he is on a committee along with then archbishop of Dublin (COI I presume) and the mayor of Dublin and others for the settlement of New Zealand. Noellla

Hi Noella,

It is indeed confusing that despite his obvious involvement in the Catholic church that he indeed served on Church of Ireland committees too.

Although the Penal laws were supposedly coming to an end with the Act of the Union, he obviously had friends among both sides that allowed him to hold a job which was a public position although not public office which as you rightly say was not allowed.

Hopefully, some of our members with an interest in Irish social history will be able to help, did you ever find out where he came from before he ended up in Dublin?

Martin

Thanks for replying Martin. No I still don’t know how he came to be in Dublin. Smallish DNA matches confirm what my family always said which is that he was a native of Kerry, possibly from Tralee but none big enough to confirm.
An internet article I read indicated for a Roman Catholic to be able to work for the government he would need to have been appointed by someone or even perhaps have been in the navy prior his appointment? Perhaps that is the answer to how he ended up there?? Was it 1820 that penal laws were mostly repealed? One his sons has his father’s occupation on his marriage record as freeholder. I know that somewhere around this time RC’s were again able to own land.
Yes I would love some input from amyone who knows more about Irish social history.
Thank you also for the suggestion to write to the Royal Irish Academy. I looked at the wevsite and- chickened out!!! Perhaps I will rethink that.
Noella

Hi Noella! 

It sounds like you have some very interesting family history. The majority of the penal laws were removed in the period 1778-1793 with the last of them of any significance being removed in 1829, so that might explain why they weren't upheld so strictly.

The military might be a lead, and there is an online collection of military records available on the Defence Forces of Ireland page. If you reach out to them directly they might be able to tell you more! 

For more social and cultural Irish history, I definitely recommend the Library Ireland page, and maybe some of your other members know more even more about this subject. 

I also think Martin's recommendation on writing the Royal Irish Academy is a good idea, as they might be able to help you find another piece of the puzzle. :) 

Hi Melin
Thanks for your reply and sugfestions. i have looked at the Defence Forces of Ireland website but unfortunately their records start in 1922. I have also checked the Brtish archives but no record of him there either.
And I have just now taken the plunge and written to the Royal Irish Academy. Fingers crossed they wirite back!
And I have had a brief look at the Library of Ireland page and it looks cery interesting for many things. Thank you for your suggestion.
I am coming to Ireland in late September and will spend a few days researching in Dublin. However I was hoing for a ‘head start ‘ before I arrive so I am trying to gather as much information as I can. I bought Tracing Your Dublin Ancestors - James Ryan- and there seem to be so many places I may need to go for research that I am not sure where to begin!!

Thanks Again
Noella

Hi Noella,  
               It is great that you are actually making it across do the research, and what an interesting character he must have been. If you are coming to Dublin, have you considered contacting some of the local experts to help you in your research? 

The Irish National Library offers a genealogy service where you get to sit with an expert and they will then go off and see what they can find for you.

While Trinity College Library doesn't offer the same service, they are also worth a visit as they have some excellent archived material and you can prep for the visit by checking out their genealogy information on the website.

Another link you may find useful is this timeline of keypoints Irish history, put together by the university of ulster. It may help you understand how events came to transpire.

You may want to grab a book or 2 on Irish political/religious history too. ' Ireland since 1800: Conflict and Conformity by K. Theodore Hoppen ' is a good read but there are plenty to choose from.

I am Looking forward to hearing what you find out.

Hi Gordon,
Thanks so much for replying and for the tips on research. I was thinking that talking to someone first cojld be a good idea so I shall contact the National Library soon and organise to meet up with someone.
I would welcome any suggestions re books on politidal, religious and social history of Ireland- I can see myself coming home with a suitcase full of books!! Brisbane is not exactly overstocked with books on Irsh history.
Whilst I realise one didn’t always have much choice in a career I do wonder why Patrick Henry was working in excise- not exactly a revered career!! I wonder what his fellow Roman Catholic peers thought of him in tnis profession?.And I can’t imagine it was terribly well paid either! But one does what one has to do!
Any firther suggestions from anyone on research in Dublin would be most welcome.
Noella

Hi Noella,

Before anything else, I just wanted to say that your thirst for knowledge is a delight to see! This thread has been a joy to read through, especially since I share your passion for history.

That said, history can be such a puzzle! I can see why Patrick Henry has caught your attention. He seems like a man of great many contradictions, both in his work and his family life. I'd be very interested in following along as we help to uncover more about him and his life.

To help do so, I'd like to suggest popping by the Irish Family History Centre in Dublin, as well. Much like the Irish National Library Gordon had suggested, the Irish Family History Centre offers one-on-one genealogical services from trained experts. They might just have a bit more information to help solve this mystery.

As for an exact book, that one is tough. I certainly know a few history books but I'm not sure if they'd have the answers you need. Instead, what I would suggest is reaching out to a library here in Ireland, like the Marsh's Library or the National Library of Ireland to see if they have any recommendations.

If you do find anything, please do let us know. I am just dying to learn more about your family tree and the secrets it holds.

Warmest regards,

Rochelle